About the Episode
Have you ever felt like there’s a powerful voice inside you, just waiting to be discovered? In this episode of Whole by Design, Dr.Doreen Downing and host Dr.Julie Lopez explore the profound impact of the human voice and how it can be a tool for healing, confidence building, and authentic self-expression, enabling you to live more fearlessly.
We will examine the common inhibitions that prevent individuals from fully expressing themselves and offer strategies for overcoming these challenges. The journey begins with self-acceptance and compassion, foundational elements for personal growth.
Prepare to learn practical techniques for communicating authentically and harnessing your inner strength, even in the face of fear. After all, it is often beyond our fears that we discover the most extraordinary opportunities.
Today’s Guest: Dr. Doreen Downing
Dr. Doreen Downing is a psychologist who specializes in the treatment of public speaking anxiety. She also hosts the Find Your Voice, Change Your Life Podcast.
Doreen once suffered from extreme stage fright. In conquering it, she discovered being connected to your Essence, the core of your authentic self, is the key to relaxed and confident speaking.
In addition to coaching and online courses, she is the author of Essential Speaking: The 7-Step Guide to Finding Your Real Voice, a book that teaches you how to transform your anxiety with full presence and deep connection.
Connect with Dr. Downing
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Podcast Transcript
Introduction
Julie: Hi everyone, on this week’s episode, we are going to be diving into how your voice can be such an important and powerful tool for healing, well-being, confidence, and overall living a fearless life. Please be sure to stay until the end where we are going to get into the juicy two important steps to actually enjoying fearless speaking in your life.
Today, I’d like to welcome Dr. Doreen Downing, who has already told me I can call her Doreen, which is cool, she’s cool. She is the founder of a whole beautiful, big, and powerful program that helps people really step into fearless speaking so that they can live the aligned life of purpose and meaning that they were born to live. And before we jump in, don’t forget to check out our website, www.vivapartnership.com for free and low-cost resources that can change your life. Thank you so much for joining us, Doreen.
Dr.Doreen: Oh, Julie, this is wonderful. I know you and I have already had a conversation on my podcast. So I know this, who’s ever listening today, it’s just an authentic, fun kind of, let’s just be in the moment and dance together and see what happens.
The Power of Voice: A Tool for Healing and Transformation
Julie: Thank you. Exactly, I love that, I love that. And I love what happens when we come together and get to talk about these opportunities that can really move the needle in terms of people’s quality of life and really stepping into their own power.
I do feel that it’s really the antidote to a lot of mental health struggles that we’re seeing in our communities and in our world today. And as always, we’re looking for different tools to help change that story. So I wanna talk to you about the power of the voice and how you yourself got really planted in this work.
Dr.Doreen: Yes, well, I think that I’m a psychologist, right? That’s one of my, what I bring to this world is a curiosity, a fascination, and a passion to know more about human behavior and not just the behavior, but what’s underneath. How is it that the patterns get set and then we repeat them and then we have suffering or struggle? And so to tell you just a teeny bit about my own story and I think that because of my interest in the underlying what goes on in people’s lives and kind of the growth that might’ve got interrupted, I would say that my growth might’ve gotten interrupted when my grandma said, “shh, be quiet or your mom’s gonna get sick and go back into the hospital”. Yeah, my mom was…
Julie: How old were you? Five years old.
Dr.Doreen: We lived with my grandma because my mother was in and out of the hospital for depression. And so I traced it back to there, but I think tracing is really fun to do because you get to know yourself and you get to say, oh, hey, little one, nobody was there for you, really? No wonder, no wonder you got scared.
Julie: I love that. That’s actually a big part of why we started this podcast, is for helping people be more compassionate with themselves, which I think is the opposite of this labeling that pervades the mental health culture. But I would say not only was no one there for you, but you got a pretty powerful message in a very high-stress situation. It’s hard for a five-year-old to not have access to their mother for periods of time and to have a maternal figure say, shh, you could be the cause of sending your mother away.
Dr.Doreen: Thank you for understanding.
Julie: Such a powerful message for a five-year-old brain to take in.
Dr.Doreen: And how that then becomes either a hidden secret, well, secrets are usually hidden anyway, but, and, or it becomes something which is the choice I made was to become the good girl, the teacher’s pet, because school was where I could be seen and heard, right? That’s where I excelled.
It was like my little arena to perform some of the things that you were telling me the other day about performance and how I related so much to having put in on top of my scared self, a layer of, I’m not afraid, right? I got out there. I was in the public, at eighth grade, “Don’t be mean, vote for Doreen“.
Julie: I love your political slogan, huh?
Dr.Doreen: Yeah, yeah.
Julie: I love that.
Dr.Doreen: I think that that’s important is that there could be for people who are very accomplished. It’s just another way of, maybe something’s inside that’s a little more vulnerable and scared to come out.
Julie: And so this drew you over time to really focusing on the power of your voice. I can see the parallel with that story, but can you help us all along your journey to really planting a flag and making a stand for the voice as a tool of change and a tool of healing even?
Dr.Doreen: Yeah, of healing. Oh, yes. I would say that I even made it through my whole PhD program in psychology with this secret. I mean, you don’t really, with one-on-one in our offices, there wasn’t any need for me to get out in public and be speaking on any platform. And of course, you could always avoid it.
And even certain situations like events where you might have to stand up, like at a wedding or something, and say something. It was just like, no, I’m not gonna do it. I’m not a public speaker, or I’m too afraid, or just stayed away from any opportunity to be visible.
Because I was pretty comfortable in my office doing in-depth psychotherapy.
Julie: Yes, behind the door.
Dr.Doreen: Yes!
Overcoming Fear and Inhibitions
Julie: I get that. They actually say that, for me, as a 30-year practicing former clinician, it’s an introvert’s game, right? You’re with people all day long, but not in groups usually. To be honest, that was a little hard for me because I popped into the world as an extrovert.
So I was not the norm in my collegial gatherings with other clinicians.
Dr.Doreen: Yeah, but we know that even extroverts have problems voicing their truth. So I can understand that.
So what happened for me eventually, it’s a longer story about the turning point, but I did start taking classes, even though I had a PhD at the community college on how to overcome your fear of public speaking.
Julie: I love it. And it worked for you?
Dr.Doreen: Well, this is what, yeah, it was a journey.
This is what struck me is when the, I guess, teacher said, Michael Angelo saw the angel in the marble and chiseled until he set it free. And that was the moment I went, oh, I’m inside. I’ve got all this PhD marble piled higher, deeper. You know, I just got all these academic layers around me and I’m afraid to be me out in the world. Because in the office, I had been trained to be kind of more of a blank screen or a reflector. And so it really wasn’t about me.
You know, it’s kind of like an occupational hazard, not really about me being able to express myself more fully. So that class and that for anybody who’s wanting to, or feeling ready to take a step, I think that fear, what’s in the way, I like to say in my classes, “what’s in the way is the way“, right?
Julie: Yes.
Dr.Doreen: And so I like to motivate people to move towards fear rather than say, oh, I can’t, you know, like accept I’m just too shy or I’m an introvert or I’m not good at speaking.
The Connection Between Voice and Mental Health
Julie: Well, let me actually, especially in the mental health realm, what you’re saying is what’s in the way is the way. It’s basically an encouragement to face the things your system might want to avoid. And so for me, as a former clinician, I think about all the things that people avoid and the ways they avoid them, right? Drugs, alcohol, shopping, scrolling, I could go on and on, food, relationships, all these compulsive types of behaviors that keep us actually from ourselves.
And my bias as a trauma addictions expert is that it’s really the avoidance itself that causes what then becomes the things that could be labeled in the mental health landscape. Those who listen to me know I’m 100% against labels because they really step outside of the human experience. So I’m hearing you say some stuff that really could be the anecdote for people suffering and struggling, right? You’re saying what’s in the way is the way.
Dr.Doreen: Yeah, yeah.
Julie: Tell me more about what you’ve seen or what you’ve noticed about that.
Dr.Doreen: It seems like the people who come at least to me with the problem of their fear of being able to speak up is that there’s something that they want that they’re not able to reach.
And there’s also, I have lots of ways of saying things, but it’s gotta be stronger than the fear itself. There’s gotta be something drawing you forward, something you really want. And sometimes actually it’s pressure like from a boss or you know you can’t make the next step in your organization unless you can be more comfortable speaking in front of groups.
So, but I’ve noticed that those who really from the inside feel like there’s more for them, there’s potential, you know, that then they, the work is not so much about getting forward or advancing in a career, it’s about being more of who they can be. And of course, then you can advance in your life. So that’s partly how I see this importance of moving towards the block because it’s blocking something that’s on the other side.
What you want is on the other side of fear. So let’s go find it. You know, it’s a journey and I love it.
And I don’t know how you feel, but people are puzzles. I love figuring out, you know, what has gone on that people aren’t more fully expressed yet.
The Journey to Fearless Speaking
Julie: Yes, I love it. I do love it. It’s very appealing to the nerdy side of me. And I wonder, do you have some or do you have a success story that you’d like to share and maybe one specifically where the fear of speaking or of someone not being connected to their authentic voice had led to other types of symptoms or struggles in their life and what happened as they went through your program and what they accomplished on the other side of really being more connected and brave about showing up in the world and being themselves?
Dr.Doreen: You’re using some really wonderful language here, connected and brave.
And that I think inspires people. Let’s see, around health, for sure. I’ve got somebody who has been working with me around being more visible online with the changes in our world.
You know, there is way more business happening online and people are needing to be comfortable on video, on camera. And she wasn’t. It was without going into the depth of her own trauma, let’s put it that way.
And it’s a shyness and it’s really this idea that you accept yourself as a shy person is I think in the way. So let’s open up to possibilities. This word that you just used, brave.
Ooh, how can a shy person be brave and what does that look like? And anyway, so in finding her voice and you’re talking about health, there is a condition she has that she needs an operation for. And she’s been doing some guided meditations which helps calm the body, right? And when you can calm your body, ooh, I’m doing it right now, you drop down and there’s a connection with your actual voice, the self that has the voice, the self that knows and wants something. So she wanted to have the doctor repeat, it was more of a message like you will be, you know, the surgery will be successful or something that was kind of benign and that’s all the doctor had to say and he refused to do that.
Julie: Wow! Really?
So she said, you’re not the doctor for me. So to be able, right? Oh, wow, I’m just feeling it right now. To come up against a system, an authority and to know yourself, who you are, what you want and be connected to yourself, your truth and then to speak it to an authority.
The Importance of Self-Acceptance and Compassion
Julie: So powerful. And I’m thinking about what it takes on the inside to be able to do that and the fact that setting limits and then following through with a limit with your voice and your action is actually a great antidote to a lot of stress in the body. And I’ve seen people’s anxiety go way down when they know how to voice limits.
I’ve seen people feel more self-confidence which then impacts a whole host of other things and a whole host of symptoms that we would all classify under the term of depression, right? This is some powerful, powerful stuff that you’re working with people on and if you can get them to that place, I’m sure their whole nervous system and the way that they show up in the world changes for the better.
Dr.Doreen: And it’s what I’m hearing right now from what you’re saying what leads me to the acceptance, right? The self-acceptance so that if there is a nervousness, there’s a hello in there to yourself. I understand you’re about to do something really scary so that the way to manage anxiety is being with yourself as opposed to pushing or something’s wrong with me because I’m so anxious or this idea that being close and self-accepting, compassionate maybe is another good word here.
Julie: Yes, but it’s that same dynamic. Instead of avoiding yourself, it’s like saying, oh my gosh, I am worth expressing what’s happening for me, finding what that is and then living it out in the world. I just love what you’re doing.
I really do, I think it’s great. Aside from loving talking to you and sitting with you and your calming presence, I’m sure your clients love working with you.
Dr.Doreen: Yes, I hear that, I hear that a lot.
I wanna say one more thing given what you just touched on about people and what’s inside. I like to say where there is fear, there is a treasure.
Practical Tips for Embracing Your Voice
Julie: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I believe that. I feel like our work is so overlapping and aligned.
I love what you’re saying. And I believe in that and honestly, that’s a big part of the work that we do at Viva because we are known in the community for going beyond just talk and moving into those spaces that sometimes can be a barrier to that exact treasure that you’re talking about.
And it’s there because our systems are adaptive and we’re built to protect ourselves. And there are some really cool advances with the non-talk-based therapies that help people get in there and make real lasting changes. But it’s all about the treasure.
It’s all about the treasure. I could talk to you forever, but I think we’re getting close to our time. So, Dr. Doreen, she told me to call her Doreen.
Doreen actually has a whole bunch of very cool free resources that you can get from her website. And she has agreed to share some of these steps towards fearless speaking. So I’m gonna turn it over to you right now to share those first two steps.
I think you said it was part of a seven-step guide that you offer…
Dr.Doreen: Yes, 7-step guide to fearless speaking that I designed and it’s also part of the whole coaching program I’ve created based on my own journey to overcome my fear. I did a lot. I did Toastmasters, I did acting classes, and improv classes, but I can say that it didn’t really, I didn’t really touch and tap into my treasure until I did some inner journey work in terms of exploring more of what’s inside and then finding the treasure.
The First Step to Fearless Speaking: Being Still
Dr.Doreen: So that first step, and I’m a mindfulness teacher too, so it’s all about being present, being with. I’ve already talked a little bit about that today. So the first step is to be still.
So people are coming to my programs and they think that they’re gonna work on speaking. And I say, the first step is be still because it’s not about speaking, it’s how you be. It’s the beingness of you where the voice comes from.
So if you’re all tight and contracted, your voice is gonna come out like, oh, no, no, it’s not gonna come out smooth and resonant because you’re tight rather than coming into a quiet listening space where it’s open, spacious, breath is full, and you’re able to regulate your nervous system by learning how to just be still. Because there’s all this, I gotta speak, I gotta impress, all that nervousness is what interferes with the voice connecting with listeners in an impactful way.
Julie: I love that, I love that. And actually, I’m gonna share some stuff with you after our podcast, but I have a 5-step transformation methodology and the first step is very aligned with that step. So that power in creating space and expansion is beautiful.
Dr.Doreen: Well, one of the biggest fears when people come to me is that they’re gonna go blank, lose their, and I say, well, let’s get comfortable with blank. Let’s just have the body go, oh, and able to maybe say, where was I? Oh, just it’s natural.
The Second Step to Fearless Speaking: Being Present
Dr.Doreen: So the second step, and we won’t do all seven, but the second one also, every single one begins with be. And this is be present in this now moment because fear exists because something happened in the past, probably, and you’re projecting it into the future, which is not the present.
So how do you train somebody to, and I’ve got present moment exercises that train the body to keep coming back, keep coming back, keep coming back to here. And that if you’ve already done the first step really, really well, the here has space.
Closing Thoughts, Resources & What’s Next
Julie: I love that. This is gold. Okay, guys, I hope you wrote this down. And I know if you go visit Dr. Doreen Downing’s website, you can actually get all seven. I’m sure they’ll be just as juicy as these first two.
Doreen, I wanna thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Whole by Design. I hope, listeners, that it left you feeling inspired to toss out the labels, embrace new perspectives, and take one step closer to the joy and clarity that you deserve.
Please join us next month when we will be interviewing Pascal Cook-Fernandez to talk about all things related to clarity and mental health.
As always, please visit www.vivapartnership.com to access our amazing free and low-cost resources that will empower you and your loved ones on health and healing. Let’s spread the message, subscribe, review, or share the episode with someone who could benefit from a stigma-dropping approach to mental fitness today.